痞酷網_PIGOO

 找回密碼
 立即註冊
!!! [系統偵測到廣告阻擋軟體] !!!

如果您覺得痞酷網對您有些許幫助,或者您認同痞酷網的理想,

那麼希望您將痞酷網設定為白名單.

並請在上論壇的時候,動動您的手指,用行動支持我們.

謝謝!
查看: 5005|回復: 20

<請教>這種電容品質如何?

  [複製鏈接]
發表於 2010-12-13 18:30:32 | 顯示全部樓層 |閱讀模式
這是一台被分解的音響中的電源及放大部份的電路板..

其中有很多電容, 我看不懂其廠牌及品質, 所以想請教一下各位大大, 如附圖紅點處的電容廠牌是? 品質如何? THKS?
p1.jpg
發表於 2010-12-13 18:47:51 | 顯示全部樓層
音響跟電腦用的電容不太一樣....我也很陌生
 樓主| 發表於 2010-12-13 21:05:15 | 顯示全部樓層
音響跟電腦用的電容不太一樣....我也很陌生
a471 發表於 2010-12-13 06:47 PM http://bbs.pigoo.com/images/common/back.gif


嘿嘿, 據說音響用的電容, 品質都是不錯的.. 所以.. 有此一問..

不過, 那些電容廠牌我都沒看過啊.. XD..
發表於 2010-12-13 21:12:41 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 IKURA 於 2010-12-13 09:26 PM 編輯

網路上找到的資料說
KELNA是ELNA的開發部門的K.Pakrin先生退休後開的公司,是ELNA的子公司.
發表於 2010-12-13 23:19:13 | 顯示全部樓層
有請電容專家米多力大大......
 樓主| 發表於 2010-12-14 18:21:20 | 顯示全部樓層
網路上找到的資料說
KELNA是ELNA的開發部門的K.Pakrin先生退休後開的公司,是ELNA的子公司. ...
IKURA 發表於 2010-12-13 09:12 PM http://bbs.pigoo.com/images/common/back.gif


原來里面還有這麼多學問.. 受教了..

THKS..
發表於 2010-12-14 19:48:06 | 顯示全部樓層
回復 6# cremaker
C大您太客氣了,在下只是把找到的東西貼出來而已...真是不好意思...
不過,在找資料時看到一個蠻有趣的舊文,貼在下面分享給各位.
出處:http://www.niccomp.com/news/companypress/passive_comp_10_02.asp
大意:
原任職於Rubycon的職員離開Rubycon之後,在Ltec開發了仿RubyconP-50type的電解液.之後那個人的部下偷了製造配方之後離開Ltec.之後以低價賣給了Luxon,Lelon等台灣的電容製造廠.
但是那個電解液配方只有仿到原來配方的一部分,裡面未含防止產生氫氣的成分,所以使用短時間之後就會"暴漿".
那種電解液總計影響到台灣11家電容生產廠(據稱),導致了2001年後半的"不良電解液事件".這件事情於2002年夏季被揭發.之後Luxon與Lelon都於網頁上公告完全沒有使用該電解液.
Luxon說有問題的電解液是Lenyan公司的P-50與P-51.
Lelon說有問題的電解液製造商是Lienyan公司.

原文:
Low-ESR Aluminum Electrolytic Failures Linked to Taiwanese Raw Material Problems

  On September 13, 2002, it was reported to Passive Component Industry Magazine by contacts in Japan that an unusually high rate of failures of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors produced in Taiwan by Lelon Electronics, Luxon Electronics, and other aluminum capacitor manufacturers had been traced to a problem with an aqueous electrolyte that had been used throughout the Taiwanese electrolytic capacitor industry.
  Reportedly, the problem developed after a materials scientist working for Rubycon Corporation in Japan left the company and began working for Luminous Town Electric in China. The scientist then developed a copy of Rubycon P-50 type water-based electrolyte, used in low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors developed by Luminous and equivalent to the Rubycon ZA and ZL series. Subsequently, the scientist's staff members defected with the formula, and began to sell and electrolyte at a low price to many of the major aluminum electrolytic houses in Taiwan, including Luxon Electronics, Lelon Electronics, and other aluminum capacitor manufacturers. (IBM has stated that five companies were affected, while other sources in Taiwan suggest that as many as 11 companies were affected.)
   Unfortunately, the staff members who defected from Luminous Town Electric with the formula copied only the partial formula, and the subsequent electrolyte produced was unstable when packaged in a finished aluminum capacitor. The instability of the electrolyte in the low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors using this water-based electrolyte leads to the build-up of excess hydrogen inside the aluminum can, which results in either a rupture of the can itself or destruction of the rubber end-seal. Either failure is potentially catastrophic due to the leaking electrolyte. According to top material scientists in the aluminum capacitor industry, if the correct amount of additives is not mixed into a water-based electrolyte, electrolysis will occur, releasing a high amount of hydrogen gas in the can and resulting in catastrophic failure.
Subsequent lifetime tests on low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors produced in Taiwan by Japanese aluminum capacitor hours revealed the occurrence of catastrophic failure of the Taiwanese aluminum electrolytic capacitors after 2000 hours of operation on parts rated for 4000 hours of operation. Intel has stated that the aluminum capacitors with the poor electrolyte may fail after only 250 hours of operation.
Industry sources have further revealed that many top companies in the computer motherboard and telecom infrastructure businesses have been scrambling to obtain low-ESR parts from aluminum electrolytic capacitor suppliers who did not have plants in Taiwan. Subsequent reports suggest that Rubycon Corporation, Nichicon, and Nippon Industries (NIC Components) have been inundated with orders for low-ESR aluminum capacitors, as more customers shy away from Taiwanese-produced parts. Rubycon, Nichicon, and Nippon Industries ( NIC Components) do not have plants in Taiwan, and thus were not exposed to the bad electrolyte in their low-ESR aluminum capacitors. Further intelligence has revealed that lead times for low-ESR aluminum capacitors are now increasing, and price increases are imminent as Japanese suppliers prepare to fill the void left by this unfortunate incident.
Many industry insiders note that some major Japanese aluminum capacitor houses also have offshore production plants in Taiwan, including Nippon Chemi-Con (Hsien Plant) and Matsushita (Nantou Hsien Plant). However, our research has concluded that many of these companies obtain their electrolytes directly from Japan and were probably not affected by the tainted supply. Other Taiwanese suppliers, such as Jamicon (Kamei), apparently were not affected because they obtain their electrolytes from Japan. Teapo has stated that it also gets its electrolytes from Japan, and was not affected or disqualified.
Some industry insiders further speculate that many of the original equipment manufacturers in the computer industry may not be aware of the problem because visibility into component supply chains is limited due to the increased usage of contract electronic manufacturers in Taiwan. Other industry sources have commented that the movement of contract electronic manufacturers to Asia, coupled with a tendency to source low-cost components locally, opens up the potential for additional component problems in the future.

Effects on The Market
Total Taiwanese production of aluminum electrolytic capacitors is approximately 22.5 billion pieces or 30% of the global aluminum electrolytic capacitor unit shipments. Thus, the failure of these Taiwanese aluminum electrolytic capacitors could have a major impact on the prime industries that consume these products, namely computer motherboards and high-speed modems; although, depending on the number of parts sold and range of buyers, the problem may affect the power supply, monitor, and game console industries. It is important to emphasize, however, that the products that have been affected are only the low-ESR type aluminum capacitors, which account for less than 20% of Taiwan's aluminum electrolytic capacitor production volume.

Potential Long-Term Effects
The effects of the bad electrolyte on the aluminum electrolytic capacitor supply chain are not known at this time. Two factors play an important role in determining the effects:
#

How long have these electrolytes been in the field;
#

Has the problem been contained to Taiwan, or have the electrolytes found their way to other nations?
As the industry becomes aware of the problem, it may experience a shift in the supply chain for aluminum capacitors. This could result in an increase of lead times and prices for low-ESR aluminum capacitors.
 樓主| 發表於 2010-12-14 20:16:41 | 顯示全部樓層
回復  cremaker
原任職於Rubycon的職員離開Rubycon之後,在Ltec開發了仿RubyconP-50type的電解液.之後那個人的部下偷了製造配方之後離開Ltec.之後以低價賣給了Luxon,Lelon等台灣的電容製造廠.
但是那個電解液配方只有仿到原來配方的一部分,裡面未含防止產生氫氣的成分,所以使用短時間之後就會"暴漿".
那種電解液總計影響到台灣11家電容生產廠(據稱),導致了2001年後半的"不良電解液事件".這件事情於2002年夏季被揭發.之後Luxon與Lelon都於網頁上公告完全沒有使用該電解液.
Luxon說有問題的電解液是Lenyan公司的P-50與P-51.
Lelon說有問題的電解液製造商是Lienyan公司.
IKURA 發表於 2010-12-14 07:48 PM http://bbs.pigoo.com/images/common/back.gif


這份資料, 真的很驚爆..

我記得, 以前的電子產品, 工作環境不會比現在好到那里, 但很少聽到爆漿的事, 但現在好像.. 只要東東壞了, 找電容可能就修好了..

莫非原因就是出在這..

另外商場如戰場, 在此也可見一般.. 國內那 11 家誤觸 "地雷" 的廠家, 可能也始料未及吧..
發表於 2010-12-14 22:56:32 | 顯示全部樓層
原來KELNA是ELNA的子公司啊~

猛一看還以為是仿的~哈!
發表於 2010-12-14 23:30:32 | 顯示全部樓層
回復 5# rex560810
大大:不要叫我專家啦! 我只是懂一些皮毛

kelna 早期的純日系做的話,品質不錯,但現今的kelna 算是普通,掛品牌給人代工,代工廠很多 ,技術真的有學到嗎? 很懷疑?

elna  現日系中,算不錯的 ,早期它跟立隆合作,做固態鉭電容,現也 close ,蘇州的立揚 ,早期管裡真的不錯,只能怪時運差,遇到不景氣,它們廠規劃的不錯(有經過 在大門口 觀看過) ,至於 鋁電容方面  ,立隆當初好像沒有規劃到,有沒有偷偷交流 就不清楚了 (應該沒有)   
發表於 2010-12-14 23:37:02 | 顯示全部樓層
回復 7# IKURA
大大: 這種早年老掉牙的假新聞,看看就好,不用相信 ,事情的真相 ,永遠不是如此 ;至於真相嗎? 有待維基解密
發表於 2010-12-14 23:39:33 | 顯示全部樓層
回復 8# cremaker
如果原因真是如此的話就好辦了
 樓主| 發表於 2010-12-14 23:42:02 | 顯示全部樓層
回復  cremaker
如果原因真是如此的話就好辦了
midole 發表於 2010-12-14 11:39 PM http://bbs.pigoo.com/images/common/back.gif


唉..

不過我真的覺得, 現在的電容, 問題很多耶..

以前在學時, 除非是極性接錯, 從沒看過電容 "大肚子" 的.. XD..
發表於 2010-12-15 00:56:38 | 顯示全部樓層
我所謂的電容不同是指除了電路上使用的特性不同外,對音響界電容更講究,
同樣的電容用在不同領域就兩回事了.....
發表於 2010-12-15 01:02:50 | 顯示全部樓層
各電容廠中,電解液成分是不能說的秘密
發表於 2010-12-15 01:11:40 | 顯示全部樓層
不過音響器材用的電容,品質真的比電腦或是家電用的要好上許多...
名牌發燒音響器材,使用頻率也不算低,電壓電流也不見得比較小,甚至更高,
可是卻很少遇到用沒幾年就爆容的...
像我在修日本的專業機板,鮮少遇到爆容的狀況,
會有大多也都已經是停產的舊機型....起碼都六~七年以上的產品了....
哪像主機板...2~3年很多都爆光光了...
發表於 2010-12-15 08:36:24 | 顯示全部樓層
這是不是又是生產商們為了"消費救經濟"的另一種策略?
發表於 2010-12-15 10:23:35 | 顯示全部樓層
因為不良的電容,養活了許多靠維修生活的人員吧!這樣算是公德一件嗎?呵呵呵!!
發表於 2010-12-15 23:19:16 | 顯示全部樓層
回復 13# cremaker
縱觀現今電容的製作技術'材料'品質,是比以前好很多,但各位會質疑說:那為何使用上,會差很多,難道是偷料嗎?還是設計有問題?
首先 先整理列出幾項給各位思考
1.化學藥品的禁用'停產'汙染等方面:以前化學藥劑毒性強被禁用或停產 ,勢必做變更,如有鉛變無鉛一樣的道理
2.電路設計的優簡化:以前工程師設計較繁謹,安全性會較均衡,但現今幾乎把電容當替死鬼,模組化的下場
3.體積迷你化: 這大家就比較明白了,縮小化的結果就是散熱差
4.裝配減省化: 這大家也常看到,明明設計要裝2顆電容,實際焊裝1顆
5.使用面不同:一樣的系列規格組裝一樣的產品,使用後卻兩樣情, 如省電燈泡(一顆裝在浴廁,一顆在客廳,結果浴廁的先死);記得以前我們為了跟飛利浦省電燈泡做比較分析,就做實驗將工廠的日光燈(電子式),換成各系列不同的電容及依使用場所不同,結果最大差異還是在使用上

以上做概略分析   
發表於 2010-12-15 23:23:10 | 顯示全部樓層
回復 16# carl0804
音響用的電容,說真的就是很簡單的一般品而已,比電腦用的差多了,音響重的是漏電流(成熟度),電腦重的是ESR
發表於 2011-3-23 23:53:08 | 顯示全部樓層
可以用LCR測一下電容的Q值,就知道這顆電容品質好不好了
您需要登錄後才可以回帖 登錄 | 立即註冊

本版積分規則

關閉

站長小叮嚀上一條 /1 下一條

禁閉室|手機版|連繫我們|痞酷網電子技術論壇

GMT+8, 2024-5-1 04:53 PM , Processed in 0.090973 second(s), 19 queries , Gzip On.

Powered by Discuz! X3.4 Licensed

© 2001-2023 Discuz! Team.